Well stated. After watching brief clips of the Felon-in-Chief's propaganda night in Congress, I do wonder if Republicans would turn against Trump if he ordered law enforcement or the military to fire on demonstrators. After their stunning display of fealty the other night, I'm not certain they wouldn't cheer as the bodies pile up. It's not a party any longer, it's just a cult.
The military could ignore an order to fire on protesters. Since firing on unarmed peaceful protesters would constitute an illegal order. The military is not bound to follow illegal orders.
You’re right. What concerns me is that very concept, what is, and isn’t, a legal order. This may be a reason Trump dismissed a number of military TJAGS, the lawyers who provide guidance to the troops. He’s removing as many impediments as possible.
Brian, you say: 'what concerns me is that very concept, what is, and isn't, a legal order.' But ... have we so quickly forgotten about the SCOTUS adjudication that awarded a sitting president immunity for all official acts? Surely, trump could justify firing on protestors as 'insurrectionists' as an 'official act' done to keep order in the country?
Absolutely, I haven’t forgotten. That decision opened the door to any number of outrages, including turning the US military on civilians. We need massive demonstrations in the streets to put sand in the gears of this coup, but if we manage this I fear people will be killed. Trump won’t hesitate. It’s why he elevated mindless lackeys to critical positions.
Brian, yes I agree people would most definitely be killed. But a) trump wouldn't care, and b) how many of his supporters (MAGA) would care? Call me Pollyanna, but if that happens I can't help but believe that's (finally) the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back: amendent 25 at the least, impeachment at worse.
“One is left to wonder whether Musk is there to do Putin’s bidding while the helpless puppet Trump stands aside.” Many people are no longer wondering this. Seems to be a fact.
Usually I can take some small degree of satisfaction in an "I told you so" situation, but while I've been saying all of this about the TRAITURD and Putin for many years (I had prominent in-laws in NYC in the 80's and this was common knowledge among them) what I feel now is instead sadness and disappointment that it has taken SO damned long for the people of the USA (not even a majority yet) to get a clue. To me, the entire MAGA phenomenon is one long ideological kegger nihilistically celebrating ignorance and bigotry, which would be a blight on the nation in the BEST of times - which these manifestly are NOT. Sigh...
Behind street demonstrations there is rarely an organization capable of following up on protesters’ demands and undertaking the complex political work that produces real change in government.
In today’s world, an appeal to protest via Twitter, Facebook, or text message is sure to attract a crowd, especially if it is to demonstrate against something—anything, really—that outrages us. The problem is what happens after the march. Sometimes it ends in violent confrontation with the police, and more often than not it simply fizzles out. Behind massive street demonstrations there is rarely a well-oiled and more-permanent organization capable of following up on protesters’ demands and undertaking the complex, face-to-face, and dull political work that produces real change in government. This is the important point made by Zeynep Tufekci, a fellow at the Center for Information Technology Policy at Princeton University, who writes that “Before the Internet, the tedious work of organizing that was required to circumvent censorship or to organize a protest also helped build infrastructure for decision making and strategies for sustaining momentum. Now movements can rush past that step, often to their own detriment.”
The above excerpt does not address our current situation in which His Royal H’Anus and his militias are determined to turn these protest violent so that he can claim justification for invoking the Insurrection Act and mobilizing the military against us.
Trump has made the USA an unreliable ally. Other countries are turning away from American defence contractors and buying weapons made in Europe and South Korea.
Europe has more people and is wealthier than the USA. It c an certainly mobilise and defeat Russia, which has fewer people an d a smaller economy.
The rest of the world will just bypass the USA and trade with each other. America's 'Trump Slump' will become a full-blown economic recessions. Americans will lose their jobs and sink into poverty.
This is what the 32% who voted for Trump will cause. Actions have consequences.
We must quit thinking in terms of the OLD rules. 47 infamously said he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and not lose support. He’s correct. His base will not desert him, even if he authorizes the military to shoot protesters.
I do not believe that Trunputin would be dense enough to fire on protesters. That would certainly spell the end of the Republicon party, as well as the MAGAt movement.
Protesting is a fundamental right of the people and it won't be stopped by gunfire. A worse case scenario is fine to imagine, but it must be realistic.
My worry is that he assembles armed gangs that will shoot. That is realistic.
Well stated. After watching brief clips of the Felon-in-Chief's propaganda night in Congress, I do wonder if Republicans would turn against Trump if he ordered law enforcement or the military to fire on demonstrators. After their stunning display of fealty the other night, I'm not certain they wouldn't cheer as the bodies pile up. It's not a party any longer, it's just a cult.
The military could ignore an order to fire on protesters. Since firing on unarmed peaceful protesters would constitute an illegal order. The military is not bound to follow illegal orders.
You’re right. What concerns me is that very concept, what is, and isn’t, a legal order. This may be a reason Trump dismissed a number of military TJAGS, the lawyers who provide guidance to the troops. He’s removing as many impediments as possible.
Brian, you say: 'what concerns me is that very concept, what is, and isn't, a legal order.' But ... have we so quickly forgotten about the SCOTUS adjudication that awarded a sitting president immunity for all official acts? Surely, trump could justify firing on protestors as 'insurrectionists' as an 'official act' done to keep order in the country?
Absolutely, I haven’t forgotten. That decision opened the door to any number of outrages, including turning the US military on civilians. We need massive demonstrations in the streets to put sand in the gears of this coup, but if we manage this I fear people will be killed. Trump won’t hesitate. It’s why he elevated mindless lackeys to critical positions.
Brian, yes I agree people would most definitely be killed. But a) trump wouldn't care, and b) how many of his supporters (MAGA) would care? Call me Pollyanna, but if that happens I can't help but believe that's (finally) the straw that breaks the proverbial camel's back: amendent 25 at the least, impeachment at worse.
They would absolutely cheer. Not only do they want to “own the libs”, they like nothing better than to kill the libs.
I fear that too. While I’d like to think the military would not cooperate, his goons will. And then we will be close to civil war.
I agree with you. I don’t think they would do it.
Yes he is. But he is overreaching.
That’s so true.
I think that would be the end. I just don’t think their constituents will tolerate it and they will lose if they don’t act.
I believe it is, as well. I should probably amend that.
“One is left to wonder whether Musk is there to do Putin’s bidding while the helpless puppet Trump stands aside.” Many people are no longer wondering this. Seems to be a fact.
Usually I can take some small degree of satisfaction in an "I told you so" situation, but while I've been saying all of this about the TRAITURD and Putin for many years (I had prominent in-laws in NYC in the 80's and this was common knowledge among them) what I feel now is instead sadness and disappointment that it has taken SO damned long for the people of the USA (not even a majority yet) to get a clue. To me, the entire MAGA phenomenon is one long ideological kegger nihilistically celebrating ignorance and bigotry, which would be a blight on the nation in the BEST of times - which these manifestly are NOT. Sigh...
New Yorkers saw Trump for what he was decades ago. Blowhard. Phony. Con man. Criminal. And possibly a Russian asset since 1987.
Why Street Protests Don’t Work
Behind street demonstrations there is rarely an organization capable of following up on protesters’ demands and undertaking the complex political work that produces real change in government.
In today’s world, an appeal to protest via Twitter, Facebook, or text message is sure to attract a crowd, especially if it is to demonstrate against something—anything, really—that outrages us. The problem is what happens after the march. Sometimes it ends in violent confrontation with the police, and more often than not it simply fizzles out. Behind massive street demonstrations there is rarely a well-oiled and more-permanent organization capable of following up on protesters’ demands and undertaking the complex, face-to-face, and dull political work that produces real change in government. This is the important point made by Zeynep Tufekci, a fellow at the Center for Information Technology Policy at Princeton University, who writes that “Before the Internet, the tedious work of organizing that was required to circumvent censorship or to organize a protest also helped build infrastructure for decision making and strategies for sustaining momentum. Now movements can rush past that step, often to their own detriment.”
The above is from the Carnegieendowment.org
https://carnegieendowment.org/posts/2014/04/why-street-protests-dont-work?lang=en
The above excerpt does not address our current situation in which His Royal H’Anus and his militias are determined to turn these protest violent so that he can claim justification for invoking the Insurrection Act and mobilizing the military against us.
Minnesota saying;
You can wish in one hand and you can shit in the other and see which one fills up faster
Take the blinders off….fight, speak up
Trump has made the USA an unreliable ally. Other countries are turning away from American defence contractors and buying weapons made in Europe and South Korea.
Europe has more people and is wealthier than the USA. It c an certainly mobilise and defeat Russia, which has fewer people an d a smaller economy.
The rest of the world will just bypass the USA and trade with each other. America's 'Trump Slump' will become a full-blown economic recessions. Americans will lose their jobs and sink into poverty.
This is what the 32% who voted for Trump will cause. Actions have consequences.
I wish. Republicans will stand up????
We must quit thinking in terms of the OLD rules. 47 infamously said he could shoot someone in the middle of fifth avenue and not lose support. He’s correct. His base will not desert him, even if he authorizes the military to shoot protesters.
I do not believe that Trunputin would be dense enough to fire on protesters. That would certainly spell the end of the Republicon party, as well as the MAGAt movement.
Protesting is a fundamental right of the people and it won't be stopped by gunfire. A worse case scenario is fine to imagine, but it must be realistic.
I am inclined to agree, but I worry about rogue mobs. Just like January 6th.